8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (Mr NCAA) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 04:02:55 PST

Basically when I do the average division breakpoints I use an alphabetical tiebreaker for those teams with the same SEN. I should go back and change it for the borderline teams to reflect last falls CPA numbers since the MHSAA uses the CPA number to break ties for those with the same SEN at the end of the divisions when the playoffs roll around. For the record Chelsea would be team #210 under this scenario for last fall. Basically I don't see how people can project what other schools SEN will be in the future since they are suppose to deal with their own. A ton of teams moved quite a bit for this fall even if they stayed in the same division. Another problem for Chelsea is that EGR could potentially be a D4 team as well next year since the Eagles are very close to them since they are team #209 for this fall on my sheet. So don't count your chickens before they are hatched as far as winning a state title.

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (Mr NCAA) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 03:36:52 PST

I forgot about NL being in between the two divisions for this fall so my comment should have read 505 or so above. Based on how the AP did the divisions a few years ago by averaging the amount of teams per division with 40 8 man football teams, here is the ending points for each divison:

D1 = 72
D2 = 144
D3 = 216
D4 = 284
D5 = 360
D6 = 432
D7 = 504
D8 starts = 506 = projection

We know from previous experience that D1 will be less than that.

Based on having around 2 teams per division being effected plus around 40% of the teams making the playoffs currently, here is my tentative projections for next year based on having 40 8 man football teams (I moved down 5 teams per division down lower):
D1 = 58
D2 = 147
D3 = 217
D4 = 281
D5 = 354
D6 = 426
D7 = 507
D8 starts = 510

This isn't official since I didn't really look at past 5 - 4 numbers, but using my method as...

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (Mr NCAA) — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:18:16 PST

If 40 schools from this years D8 forms 8 man football next year, then the 2010 D8 start number will be around team #501 or so. This is without taking into consideration the 5 - 4 teams in between the two starting points. So it does move it up quite a bit. This takes into consideration those on the 8 man football list for this fall, but not Melvindale ABT yet. I will have to run the 5 - 4 numbers since 1999 after we get those official 8 man football teams.

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (GoBlueAggies) — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:48:46 PST

prepseer wrote:
I'm not necessarily against 8-Man Football, I'm just saying there will be unintended consequences. Best solution would be to make all Division 8 level schools 8-Man and reduce the number of Divisions in the MHSAA playoffs to 7--with the same number of teams per division. You would have to carve up Class D based on historical placements in Division 8.

As an alumni and supporter of a Division 8 school - I would be very upset if this was the "best solution". Our community (Beal City) is very proud of the competitive teams that we put on the field year in and year out and to be forced to an 8 man system would be unfair. Last year we had an enrollment of 220 and we had 18 players on varsity and 40 on the jv - it was the first year (that I'm aware of) that we could have fielded a freshman team in addition to jv and varsity. This year our enrollment is 208 and...

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (ftballfan) — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:28:33 PST

Maybe those players are changing residences?

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (Mr NCAA) — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:07:19 PST

Andy did confirm that Detroit Finney will be fielding a football team this fall. What he didn't answer was how those Detroit Finney boys basketball players will be immediately eligible at Detroit Community though. It seems to be to be a conflict between the two articles.

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (Mr NCAA) — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:23:56 PST

Just curious what makes you think that Finney is fielding sports teams this fall? Practically the whole basketball team is transferring to Detroit Community, where their coach took the head coaching position. This would make them ineligible for one or two semesters since I would consider that an athletically motivated transfer.

http://detnews.com/article/20090514/SPORTS05/905140398/1049/rss18/Detroit+Community+loads+up+on+Finney+basketball+talent

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (ftballfan) — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:38:32 PST

So, Finney itself is not closing, just the building while they refurbish it. So the PSL will actually have an odd number of schools. Good news for Inkster in future years.

For example, when Rochester Adams was being renovated a few years back, their kids went to Stoney Creek for a year before that school started on its own.

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (Mr NCAA) — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:40:56 PST

If John wants to call the temporary new Detroit Finney school "McNair Middle School", then I would have no problem with him adding them to the list since that's the real name of the school. This is just one of the things that John does that is controversial on his website. Detroit Finney is moving to a different building name and address and yet is calling it the same freaking name while a school like Royal Oak is combined from Royal Oak Kimball and RO Dondero and is in the Kimball building but still forms a new name plus starts new historical record for them. There has been lots of name changes on the website that John hasn't ever acknowledged. If you think that this is semantics, then why doesn't he acknowledge RO Kimball and P. Northern as schools in the all time W L T records since the schools will actually be in those buildings? To me, this is just inconsistent. Traverse City breaks into two and he kept those for Traverse City Central since they...

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (HSSportsGuru) — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:40:11 PST

As far as the other 8-man schools,

Flint Michigan School for the Deaf will try the football thing after not having any since the Mid-1980's. John only lists (on his site) the Tartars playing Owendale-Gagetown (twice) in 2009. But according to highschoolsports.net, the Tartars will also be playing Carsonville-Port Sanilac (twice). AND, it just so happens that Akron-Fairgrove still has some open dates at the same time that MSD also has. I would not be surprised to see the folks at the North Central Thumb 8-man schools include MSD in the 8-man conference race for 2009.

Ann Arbor Eastern Washtenaw Multicultural is a non-MHSAA school for now. They do have a website, but it does not list any athletic schedules (yet).

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (HSSportsGuru) — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:30:04 PST

Mr. NCAA, I too read the article about Finney closing. BUT, in this same article, it is stated that the actual "building" that Finney High School is in right now will in fact close. The students that go to Finney now are supposed to be sent to a middle school, while DPS constructs a newer Finney "building". Then, a newer Finney High School "building" will be used when construction is completed.

To me, this is only semantics in that the students are only temporarily going to be in a different building for a while. THey can still exist as a High School and field teams this way.

I guess we will only have to wait and see on how the DPS handles this whole mess.

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (Mr NCAA) — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:10:48 PST

This was posted under "More DPS info":

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090512/SCHOOLS/905120421/DPS-to-close-29-schools

Finney will close at the end of the school year, and design and construction of a new Finney High will begin in the fall.

The article plainly states that Detroit Finney won't be open this fall. What part of that don't people get?

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (ftballfan) — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:33:21 PST

1. John does have separate 8-man and 11-man sections on the Open Dates page only.

2. Maybe Finney doesn't close until after next school year. Detroit Public Schools is known for waiting until May or June to announce school closings. If a school closes, it should be announced no later than March, especially if they play football.

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (Mr NCAA) — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:47:30 PST

John came up with another two teams playing 8 man football this fall:

Ann Arbor Eastern Washtenaw Multi.

Flint Michigan School for the Deaf

I wish that he would form two...

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (ftballfan) — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:05:42 PST

Possible 8-man teams in the Mid-State area: Ashley, Baldwin, B.R. Crossroads, Portland St. Patrick (leaves CMAC for MSAC for all sports as well)

Mid-State teams that will remain 11-man:
Coleman, Montabella, Vestaburg: Too large (Class C)
Brethren, Onekama-Bear Lake: Over 200 kids (nearly Class C)
Sacred Heart: Has a JV team, despite having under 200 kids
Manistee Catholic: Too much tradition, even with 60 kids (still competitive with much larger schools)

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (TNTDyno) — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:04:12 PST

NittanyFan wrote:
From a practical standpoint, I can't see enough schools going 8-man to reach a "critical mass" and ensure it's successful.

Yes, there will be a number of UP schools who this will appeal to, and they'll probably have enough schools to fill full schedules.

But who else?

A few Schools in the thumb (think Akron-Fairgrove, Owentown-Gagetown), a few schools in South Central Michigan (SCAA), a few Mid-State Conference schools, a few North Star schools in Northeast Michigan.

I think that's really it. A few schools scattered in different pockets of the Lower Peninsula ...... likely not enough to form big enough geographically-sane conferences. Even to get a full 7-8 game schedule may entail (1) playing schools multiple times or (2) significant travel in these times of cost containment.

I also...

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (KleShreen) — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:30:49 PST

Mr NCAA wrote:
Just for KleShreen: The Canadian fields are 65 yards across while their U. S. counterparts are 53 1/3 yards. So it might be a tad over 20% wider.

http://www.sportsknowhow..../football-field-cfl.html

The skill guys are the ones with more to learn at the next level IMHO since basically 8 man defensive teams don't play zone defense from what I have read before. This is why all they have to do is juke the defensive players out of their jockstrap and it's off to the races.

Thanks for the number! I wasn't sure on the width at all, just threw out an arbitrary statement. I know I watched that QB's film and it seemed like he was playing in an unmarked backyard with as wide as those fields seem to be.

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (NittanyFan) — Fri, 29 May 2009 21:41:45 PST

From a practical standpoint, I can't see enough schools going 8-man to reach a "critical mass" and ensure it's successful.

Yes, there will be a number of UP schools who this will appeal to, and they'll probably have enough schools to fill full schedules.

But who else?

A few Schools in the thumb (think Akron-Fairgrove, Owentown-Gagetown), a few schools in South Central Michigan (SCAA), a few Mid-State Conference schools, a few North Star schools in Northeast Michigan.

I think that's really it. A few schools scattered in different pockets of the Lower Peninsula ...... likely not enough to form big enough geographically-sane conferences. Even to get a full 7-8 game schedule may entail (1) playing schools multiple times or (2) significant travel in these times of cost containment.

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (Mr NCAA) — Thu, 28 May 2009 11:47:47 PST

Just for KleShreen: The Canadian fields are 65 yards across while their U. S. counterparts are 53 1/3 yards. So it might be a tad over 20% wider.

http://www.sportsknowhow.com/pops/football-field-cfl.html

The skill guys are the ones with more to learn at the next level IMHO since basically 8 man defensive teams don't play zone defense from what I have read before. This is why all they have to do is juke the defensive players out of their jockstrap and it's off to the races.

Re: 8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (TNTDyno) — Thu, 28 May 2009 07:43:14 PST

I don't know that the number of kids being recruited from the 8 man football schools will vary much from the days when they were playing 11 man. To me, it would be tough to really get a handle on a kid who is playing 11 man if the competition is bad. Also, the kids all watch 11 man on the weekends, so I would think they could adapt. Making the transition might be tough at first, but if the kid is athletic and smart enough, they should be fine.

8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you

feeds@kickapps.com (Boeing747) — Mon, 18 May 2009 14:44:58 PST

http://www.freep.com/article/20090518/HSS/90518070/MHSAA+approvesman+football+for+2010

Eight man football approved for the 2010 season for schools with under 223 students.