East vs. West ... the great debate ... who's the power in 2008?

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East vs. West ... the great debate ... who's the power in 2008?

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10/02/08 12:40 PM

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Tags : east vs west

A lot of talk about this in 2008, especially after two East powers Brother Rice and St. Marys went over the West and got handled easily.

This season ... out West we have powers such as
East Grand Rapids
Muskegon
Lowell
Rockford
Hudsonville
St. Joseph
etc.

The East has ..
Warren DeLaSalle
Rochester Adams
Romeo
Adrian
Fordson
Lake Orion
Macomb Dakota
etc.

Who is the bigger power this year? Who will take home the most titles in D1-D3? D4-D5? D6-D8?

This isn't about HISTORY ... let's talk about where the power lies in 2008.

I'm sure other areas of the state will win a few titles as well (norther, UP, central, etc.) ... but for now I want to hear about East vs. West. ... another question ... what's your definition of East and West? What are the boundaries ...

What area is stronger (Result)

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BiasedGuy

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10/02/08 12:52 PM

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Searn, but it IS about history. And historically the CL is the number 1 or 2 league in the state. You can make the argurment whether the league is up or down (doesn't matter the year - there are always ppl saying they are down in any given year) this year, but for not one, but two CHSL Cent teams to get beaten the way they did, suggests the west is stronger. Maybe the top two on your list for the east could fit in with that list of the west this year....

From reading various posts it seems fait accompli that the GR area is going to walk away w/ D2 and D3 this year. Saying that, Coach Al teams seem to get stronger as the year goes on and they almost always make decent PO runs.

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Searn

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10/02/08 1:00 PM

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BiasedGuy wrote:
Searn, but it IS about history. And historically the CL is the number 1 or 2 league in the state. You can make the argurment whether the league is up or down (doesn't matter the year - there are always ppl saying they are down in any given year) this year, but for not one, but two CHSL Cent teams to get beaten the way they did, suggests the west is stronger. Maybe the top two on your list for the east could fit in with that list of the west this year....

From reading various posts it seems fait accompli that the GR area is going to walk away w/ D2 and D3 this year. Saying that, Coach Al teams seem to get stronger as the year goes on and they almost always make decent PO runs.

Everyone has their own way of looking at things. Those who's side have a strong history ... tend to put a lot of emphasis on history (see Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. fans) .... Those who are strong NOW and may not have the best history look more at the NOW. (for another college reference... maybe talk to South Florida or Missouri fans?)

Vote based on your own methods.

But the main question is .... who do you believe is stronger THIS YEAR.

"Crank Me Up!"

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BiasedGuy

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10/02/08 1:25 PM

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West. They ran two CHSL teams.

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EastGuRu

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10/02/08 3:10 PM

It seems obvious that the west side of the state has more top-ranked teams this year and the few head-to-head matchups have been decidedly one sided. As such, I believe the west side teams will be favored to win the top 3, if not 4, divisions heading into the playoffs. Favored is a long way from winning though. The playoffs can offer many twists and the team left standing is certainly not always the one we all thought was the best all year. An injury here, fluky weather there and voila! Who predicted Caledonia to win D3 a few years back? Who predicted Midland to be in the championship game last year, much less their opponent MLK? If your only standard is who takes home the crown, then we need not have a debate. Just wait for the games to be played and there you have it. Wouldn't it be nice if the MHSAA seeded the tournament somehow and spread the matchups out against other regions. I know, I know....travel, home field, the gate money, yada, yada. One can dream can't they! BTW, I wonder how teams from the "Central/North" feel about this debate?

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BiasedGuy

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10/02/08 4:00 PM

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EastGuRu wrote:
.......BTW, I wonder how teams from the "Central/North" feel about this debate?

Umm....left out?

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dsmith2005

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10/02/08 4:13 PM

This season got off to a shot gun start for the west beating up on the east early. Does that mean that the west will clearly be dominant by season end? I say definately not. East has alot of parity this year. As the season progresses the picture is becoming clear as to who the east elites really are. Some teams will emerge into the lime light because they are much improved. I say by seasons end all is well for the east and we will produce those teams that will be able to tangle with the west and win. As of right now though the nod has to go to the west side! Stand By Though!?!?!

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eagleCHAMP05

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10/02/08 5:07 PM

Obviously I think the East is favored in D-1 since they have probably twice as many D-1 schools as the West.

D-2 through D-5 seem to be dominated by West teams.

6 is split, and 7 and 8 go to the West.

It's okay when you're respected, but when you're feared, that's when you've got the power.--Frank Lucas

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Muskyfan

#8

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10/02/08 6:05 PM

Seems like Catholic league teams finish strong

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BiasedGuy

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10/02/08 8:54 PM

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Muskyfan, to your point check out DCC and BBR playoff win pcts. Once they get there they usually stick around, and many times finish the deal.

btw. When you see WMC at the game tomorrow, please pick up my salmon from him.

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AuldSchool

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10/02/08 11:51 PM

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Does it seem that success of some programs in the West accounts for the name recognition which in turn accounts for the number of teams at the top of the polls. Even though we know that only one Div 2 team is likely to come out of a Western regional, we have several that are still in contention, and so they all sit atop the polls.

The Eastern teams seem like the Boise States at the moment. We can't know how good they are until they beat Oklahoma.

When I pick up a pre-season college mag and see that one conference is represented by 7 teams in the top 25 I feel the writers have not done their homework. Three of those teams are going to have 3 or 4 losses, so they shouldn't be in the upper tier. They sort of use the Rob Marinelli arguement "We know we're a good football team, we just can't…" and ignore the losses.

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Searn

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10/03/08 12:45 AM

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AuldSchool wrote:

When I pick up a pre-season college mag and see that one conference is represented by 7 teams in the top 25 I feel the writers have not done their homework. Three of those teams are going to have 3 or 4 losses, so they shouldn't be in the upper tier. They sort of use the Rob Marinelli arguement "We know we're a good football team, we just can't…" and ignore the losses.

Well, ... I'm not sure I agree with that.

At least in my opinion .. for rankings ... one should attempt to find the Top 25(in this case) teams at the current time ... not try to predict what teams will get enough wins to be in the rankings at the end of the season.

Let's pretend that the OK Re-Aligned going into 2008 and Muskegon, Lowell, East Grand Rapids, Rockford, Hudsonville and were all put into 1 Ottawa Kent Power Division. .... should we not rank all of them going into the year just because we know that some of them will have to lose some games at some point? ... even though realistically they are likely all in the top 15 teams in Michigan?

"Crank Me Up!"

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AuldSchool

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10/03/08 1:20 AM

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Jumping around. And I guess I don't really like the combined rankings nor the way the state sets up playoffs. Let's get some teleporters set up so we can seed the playoffs without worrying about travel.

The whole East vs West comes down to the final weekend where a writer for the Freep or the Press tallies up the east titles or the west titles. Unfortunately the MHSAA hasn't broken things down that way. Still possible for two local teams in Div IV to play for State title, i.e. Coopersville vs Zeeland West. When Rockford can get paired up with an eastern team in the district it sort of makes the whole thing moot.

Realistically the OK Red is the OK Power Division. Most of the rest of the OK tries to ignore that fact. The bottom two teams in the OK Red both played one of the top teams in the Gold. Both lost by a TD. Caledonia (which won both) may wind up in your 32.

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Mr NCAA

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10/03/08 6:42 AM

MHSAA Football Stats

Let's not forget 2003. EK kicked BBR's butt at the Silverdome in the first game of the season. BBR went on to the final that year with Rochester Adams's winning. Plus DCC won D1 in 2003. Sure there has been some east west matchups this year, but it's how the team performs in the playoffs that counts.

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Muskyfan

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10/03/08 9:51 AM

BiasedGuy wrote:
Muskyfan, to your point check out DCC and BBR playoff win pcts. Once they get there they usually stick around, and many times finish the deal.

btw. When you see WMC at the game tomorrow, please pick up my salmon from him.

lol! I'll pick up the salmon but no gaurantee I won't eat it first! Is it smoked?

Last Edited By: Muskyfan 10/03/08 9:56 AM. Edited 1 time.

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aowwt

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10/03/08 5:12 PM

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the team that beat EK in 2003 was Grandville. They went onto the semis until a I think a last second loss to Utica Ike. The next year pitted both GV and Rockford in the district match. Those two teams ended up going to OT and thats when Rockford took two or was it 3 titles in a row. As for Division 1 well I think the biggest issue is this. There is 5 Division 1 teams from GR. I think a couple from the Kzoo area, two from the North, with one or two from lansing and rest sitting on the east side of the state. Thats out of 65 teams that is the average or so. So given that what Rockford has done in the past is pretty amazing. You also have to take into account other factors. I wont get into since it turn into a long winded post.

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Oman0123

#16

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10/03/08 8:30 PM

coming from an easterner the west is the dominant side hands down.

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Cville Trojans

#17

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10/04/08 8:21 AM

If it plays out the way it probably should, the west side will be very dominant this year.
Especially considering the fact that there are much fewer DI schools on the west side, and that if the smaller schools are equal in number, the west seems to be playing well enough to win most of those divisions.
Obviously, it is still really early to break it down this way, but loooking at "early contenders" across the board:
Candidates by Division

1 - Rockford (who is the east going to send against them? They seem to be getting better as the season progresses)
2 - Muskegon, Hudsonville, Lowell (I know Adams will be tough, but these teams are unbelievable. Hudsonville will be the best 7 - 2 team in the state. Its a shame they will knock each other out early.)
3 - EGR (dominating so far, who will the east side send?)
4 - Orchard View, Coopersville (D4 is wide open this year, we will see how good OV is this week against Montague)
5 - Oakridge (this will be tough for them, Standish Sterling, WC, JLC may all be factors)
6 - Montague (wins this hands down this year. They are playing great.)
7 - If MCC falls D8, this is wide open. TCSF maybe an early favorite.
8 - CFFP proved last night they're the best in the UP. However, this might be the best D8 ever, if MCC, Mendon, and Climax Scotts all end up there from the west side.

Overall, the west has to be the favorite in D1, dominant/scary in D2 and D3, average in D4 and D 5, good chance in D6, wide open in D7, and a good shot at D8.

Looking at the clusters on the map, the east side sends a lot of teams to the playoffs, but outside of perennial powers like Adams, I just don't think there are as many serious contenders.

We will see in a few weeks how it starts to play out ...

In the meantime, anyone want to post a similar list from the east side?
We could take a look at who might beat who head to head. Give us something to do until the playoffs start.

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BiasedGuy

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10/04/08 8:27 AM

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Nice lil Capsule. Thanks.

Are you a closet EK fan now that Hudkins is Coach?

Did you play for him?

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Cville Trojans

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10/04/08 9:24 AM

I think he'll do a good job at EK.
He has built / rebuilt programs before and will get it right in time.
It will be interesting to see how the OK Red treats him over the long run.

As for me, I just like watching good football.

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EKDAD

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10/04/08 9:39 AM

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A little off topic here, but everyone has supported cocah from day one. He had a tough game last night, as he was down 25 - 0 at the half and came back to win in two ot's 38 - 35. More importantly, the kids have been treated with respect from the first time they met him and they have bought into his system. They have been in every game with exception the Hudsonville game. The kids are learning and improving each week. They have taken some unorthox approaches to the 78'er program, but that too has born fruit. What more can you ask from a new coach? With this progress, the winning will take care of itself eventually. I am willing to go out on a limb and say that Muskegon will have thier hands full with this team.I am not predicting an upset, but I am saying that Musky better not over look the Falcons after an emotional win over Hudsy, or it could get ugly for them. Knowing TA, he will know that and have the Big Reds ready to play.

Gotta love this time of year!

GO EK!!

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East vs. West ... the great debate ... who's the power in 2008?

East vs. West ... the great debate ... who's the power in 2008?

What area is stronger (Result)