Opting up under the current playoff format

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Mr NCAA	Opting up under the current playoff format		Lead	[-]
All-Searn Hall of Fame Posts: 5912 10/05/08 8:54 PM MHSAA Football Stats	Tags : None Class B opting up to Class A becomes a Division 2 team Class C opting up to Class B becomes a Division 4 team Class D opting up to Class C becomes a borderline Division 6/7 team The above assumes that there will be close to 620 teams like this year. So that is the current scenarios for teams opting up until there is more or less fewer teams. This is based on the historical range for each division as well. I re-posted this since it seems like we are getting some newcomers participating on here. Last Edited By: Mr NCAA 10/05/08 9:00 PM. Edited 4 times.
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FSUdawg06		#1	[url]	[-]
Sophomore Posts: 13 10/06/08 9:11 AM	I dont understand. To my knowledge, Michigan lists all 6 win or better teams in order of enrollment. The playoffs need 256 teams. If their are 248 six win teams, they will add one 5-4 teams per division (total of 8). Once this is done, they will draw a line after every 32 teams to get a total of 8 divisions. I have never heard of a team "opting" to go up a division and they would be idiodic to do so. Why in the heck would a D4 class B team "opt up" to division 2?
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Searn		#2	[url]	[-]
All-Searn Hall of Fame Posts: 5781 10/06/08 9:46 AM Board Owner http://michiganhsfootball.com	FSUdawg06 wrote: I dont understand. To my knowledge, Michigan lists all 6 win or better teams in order of enrollment. The playoffs need 256 teams. If their are 248 six win teams, they will add one 5-4 teams per division (total of 8). Once this is done, they will draw a line after every 32 teams to get a total of 8 divisions. I have never heard of a team "opting" to go up a division and they would be idiodic to do so. Why in the heck would a D4 class B team "opt up" to division 2? A couple reasons. 1. They want to play stronger competition. Some schools such as Orchard Lake St. Mary have done so in the past. In the past (I have not kept up with other sports as much) OLSM has opted up in various sports such as hockey and basketball as well in order to play at the highest level. 2. Their membership in a league may depend on them opting up. For example ... a league of all class B teams may not embrace the idea of accepting a class C team as a member (less playoff points). For which the applicant agrees to opt up to be a class B team to become a member of the league. I believe Inkster, New Haven and some other schools have done this in the past in order to keep their league status. "Crank Me Up!"
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FSUdawg06		#3	[url]	[-]
Sophomore Posts: 14 10/06/08 10:52 AM	Just to be clear. You are talking about a "league" (ex: MAC, OAA) and not a "division" (1-8). I know that you have some choice regarding what league you compete in but I have no prior knowledge of a team opting up for the playoffs.
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Mr NCAA		#4	[url]	[-]
All-Searn Hall of Fame Posts: 5916 10/06/08 11:35 AM MHSAA Football Stats	Well, then you haven't been following Michigan high school football very long or just don't realize the rules. Teams opt up in class and placed in the middle of that particular class by the SEN. Then, when the playoff field is set, schools are placed in the divisions. I posted which division that the schools would be placed in using historical information. Lansing Sexton opted up for a couple of years as well since the school has to commit for the opting up part for 2 years.
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Searn		#5	[url]	[-]
All-Searn Hall of Fame Posts: 5785 10/06/08 11:41 AM Board Owner http://michiganhsfootball.com	FSUdawg06 wrote: Just to be clear. You are talking about a "league" (ex: MAC, OAA) and not a "division" (1-8). I know that you have some choice regarding what league you compete in but I have no prior knowledge of a team opting up for the playoffs. Yes I was referring to leagues. But since they "opted" up to be part of the league .. it also applied to the state playoffs. Examples when it comes to playoffs. In 2005/2006 Orchard Lake St. Mary would have been D3 by enrollment but "opted up" and played in the D2 playoffs. Back around 2000 Detroit DePorres should have been (just guessing) around D6 or D7 for the state playoffs ... but the "opted up" and played in the D4 football playoffs. Around 2004 New Haven had an enrollment (300-400) that would put them in about D6 ... but they "opted up" to class B in order to be in their MAC division ... so they played in the D4 football playoffs with schools double their size. It happens from time to time. Back "Crank Me Up!"
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FSUdawg06		#6	[url]	[-]
Sophomore Posts: 15 10/06/08 11:53 AM	In the MAC, you do not have to "opt up" to be placed in a division with different classes. Clintondale and Marine City (both class B) play in a league with all class A teams. This doesn't mean that they have to play D1 or D2 in the playoffs. They will still be Division 4. Before this year, there were only gold/silver divisions for class b and c schools. New Haven has NEVER been part of the MAC gold/blue/white/red. They have been in the lowest division (silver) until the bronze was introduced this year. http://michigan-football.com/s/2004/macslver.htm
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EastGuRu		#7	[url]	[-]
Senior Posts: 149 10/06/08 11:56 AM	One other thing FSUDawg, in addition to the reasons cited by Searn, a school can only "opt up" in "Class"...not Division. For most other MHSAA sports, they still classify your school by CLASS (A, B, C, D). And, in truth, your football team is still pigeonholed by CLASS, which depends entirely on your enrollment. Years ago, in football, they had 4 state champs (ABCD). Then to encourage more participation they expanded the championships to include two team from each class AA, A, BB, B, CC....etc., essentially splitting the "CLASSES" in half. Then when the MHSAA went to it's current playoff format of allowing 256 teams, they essentially abandoned the idea of CLASS size and instead re-ordered the 256 into 8 equal DIVISIONS from largest to smallest. This is where the DIVISION comes from. Stick with me.... Now, if you want to "opt up", you can only do so based on your original CLASS ranking (by enrollment). If you are a Class B school, you can opt up to Class A. Your "new" enrollment number (for calculating which DIVISION you will be placed in) will be designated as the median enrollment number of all Class A schools. One caveat...regardless of where your new enrollment numbers fall, i don't believe they will let you advance any more than "two" DIVISIONS. In other words, a very small Class B school (Div4) can not end up as a large Class A school (Div1). You also can not opt up from DIV2 to DIV1 since both of these are already "CLASS A" schools.
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EastGuRu		#8	[url]	[-]
Senior Posts: 150 10/06/08 11:58 AM	I hope the above was not redundant since others posted before I could get my answer typed.
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Searn		#9	[url]	[-]
All-Searn Hall of Fame Posts: 5786 10/06/08 12:06 PM Board Owner http://michiganhsfootball.com	FSUdawg06 wrote: In the MAC, you do not have to "opt up" to be placed in a division with different classes. Clintondale and Marine City (both class B) play in a league with all class A teams. This doesn't mean that they have to play D1 or D2 in the playoffs. They will still be Division 4. Before this year, there were only gold/silver divisions for class b and c schools. New Haven has NEVER been part of the MAC gold/blue/white/red. They have been in the lowest division (silver) until the bronze was introduced this year. http://michigan-football.com/s/2004/macslver.htm What I'm saying is that (at least what I was told) .... since New Haven is a Class C school ... they MAC made them play up to Class B... that may have been bad info. Either way .. New Haven was a class C school and FOR WHATEVER REASON then choose to be class B. "Crank Me Up!"
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Mr NCAA		#10	[url]	[-]
All-Searn Hall of Fame Posts: 5918 10/06/08 12:08 PM MHSAA Football Stats	which DIVISION you will be placed in) will be designated as the median enrollment number of all Class A schools. The MHSAA places teams into the middle of the class, not the median enrollment number. EG. There are 190 or so teams in Class A. A team opting up would be placed as team #96 if the 190 figure was the correct one.
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FSUdawg06		#11	[url]	[-]
Sophomore Posts: 16 10/06/08 12:25 PM	I think Ive got it. I just didnt understand why a team would want to roll the dice at a state championship at D2 when they could probably have an easy run at D4. I understand that they may want to bump up their conferances to play better regular season competition. The info on how the new enrollment # is computed is appreciated. I didnt think that football teams were "labeled" as anything since the playoffs are based on 8 divisions that are computed by enrollment.
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FSUdawg06		#12	[url]	[-]
Sophomore Posts: 17 10/06/08 12:26 PM	On the New Haven issue, there are no other class c schools for them to play in macomb county. Clawson was the only other and i believe they are up to b now.
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Searn		#13	[url]	[-]
All-Searn Hall of Fame Posts: 5789 10/06/08 12:39 PM Board Owner http://michiganhsfootball.com	FSUdawg06 wrote: On the New Haven issue, there are no other class c schools for them to play in macomb county. Clawson was the only other and i believe they are up to b now. Looking up New Haven ... they were an Independent before joining the MAC in 2004. And did not choose to "opt up" until 2004 (their first year in the MAC) .... so I'm betting them opting up did have something to do with them joining the MAC.... or it was simply a coincidence. "Crank Me Up!"
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applefan84		#14	[url]	[-]
Junior Posts: 21 10/06/08 2:02 PM	It might be helpful to this discussion to note that the only school in Michigan this year that has opted up in classification for Football is Detroit-Finney (from B to A). Their actual enrollment is 809. If they had made the MHSAA Football Playoffs this year, however, the MHSAA would have used an enrollment figure of 1531 to determine which Division they ended up in. The 1531 number is equal to the size of the middle school in Class A (in a group of 190, it is school 95, which is Rochester-Adams (enrollment: 1531)).
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FSUdawg06		#15	[url]	[-]
Sophomore Posts: 18 10/07/08 10:44 AM	Looks like a good move by Finney 1-5 in class A is a whole lot better that having a chance at .500 or above in class B.
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Mr NCAA		#16	[url]	[-]
All-Searn Hall of Fame Posts: 5923 10/07/08 11:12 AM MHSAA Football Stats	Looks like a good move by Finney 1-5 in class A is a whole lot better that having a chance at .500 or above in class B. You do realize of course that Finney's regular season schedule didn't change because they opted up. They would be 1 - 5 if they would have been a Class B team as well. It was only the playoff schedule that might have changed.
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FSUdawg06		#17	[url]	[-]
Sophomore Posts: 19 10/07/08 12:59 PM	Makes even less sense to me then. They obviously aren't good, so why bump up?
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Mr NCAA		#18	[url]	[-]
All-Searn Hall of Fame Posts: 5929 10/07/08 2:10 PM MHSAA Football Stats	Things happen unexpectedly. I thought for sure that Detroit Martin Luther King would make the playoffs before the season started. Obviously they are out of contention now as well.
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Searn		#19	[url]	[-]
All-Searn Hall of Fame Posts: 5795 10/07/08 3:54 PM Board Owner http://michiganhsfootball.com	If you look back Finney was a Class A team by enrollment for a long time right up until 2008. I guess for whatever reason they decided they didn't want to drop to Class B even though enrollment put them there. "Crank Me Up!"
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EastGuRu		#20	[url]	[-]
Senior Posts: 151 10/07/08 5:15 PM	In yet another answer to your bewilderment FSUDawg..........Although I have no first-hand knowledge of this, I would not be surprised if there was not a certain amount of "peer pressure" within the coaching circles for teams that "appear" to have an unfair advantage in acquiring talent to play up............i.e. the Catholic Schools and/or a team like FHH when they had an open district for sports allowing alot of kids to attend Harrison to play football when they might have been forced to play more locally at Farmington High otherwise. (I should add that to my knowledge FHH never played up nor were they usually allowed to since many (if not all) of the years they were dominant they were considered a Class A school already. I was just using the example of a scenario where peer pressure might be brought to bear)
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Opting up under the current playoff format

Opting up under the current playoff format