Michigan High School Football Rankings
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Searn |
Searn Super 32 - FINAL RANKINGS - 2008 |
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All-Searn Hall of Fame
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Posts: 6339 11/30/08 5:25 PM Board Owner |
These are always tough because I don't have next week to fix something if I change my mind ... .
Michigan High School Football Rankings |
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allhsfan |
#1 | |||
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Nice work. Do have one question though. You have Hudsonville who beat 1 team in your top 25 and play 1&2 close but no cigar. LO beat 4 teams in your top
25 and 2 losses to #2 and you have Hudsonville ahead of Lake Orion. I know its your poll just wonder what your thinking of this was.
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Searn |
#2 | |||
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All-Searn Hall of Fame
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Posts: 6341 11/30/08 6:01 PM Board Owner |
allhsfan wrote: Easiest answer: I believe Hudsonville would beat Lake Orion. ... and is a Top 5 team in Michigan ... just happened to play in a league with the top 2 teams in Michigan ahead of them ... and a tough 2nd round matchup. Lake Orion had a great year .... congrats to them. |
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KleShreen |
#3 | |||
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Still think Holland Christian is underrated...considering who is at #10...I think HC should be #10 then...My only other gripe is I think i would drop Kenowa
Hills out, swap MCC and Lahser, and put Montague or TCSF at #32.
Grand Valley State - NATIONAL CHAMPS AGAIN! ('02 '03 '05 '06 baby!) ![]() |
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Searn |
#4 | |||
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All-Searn Hall of Fame
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Posts: 6344 11/30/08 6:23 PM Board Owner |
Both allhsfan and Kle make legitimate suggestions ... both are reasonable and I wouldn't argue 'too hard' against either ...
It's tough with teams in D4 and under .. since they don't play that many teams that would likely end up ranked at the end of the season ... There are some teams like Montague, Chelsea, etc. that I would like to have ranked ... but had a hard time finding teams to replace to bring them in ... If I had a top 40 I would have included those teams. |
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Spartan2008StateChamps |
#5 | |||
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good work, really cant argue with that. really only change i would make would be to swap EGR and LO. personally i believe that EGR could beat LO even though LO
had the misfortune to play the #2 team twice.
searn, off topic, how do i change my display name? |
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kaycob |
#6 | |||
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As I mentioned previously, Southeastern does not beloing in the Top32. 1st week, 6th week or last week of the season, I will contend mightily that SE does not
beat Rice, CC, Adams or Midland. I completely understand that the bottom half of any poll is practically a "dart throwing" session, but SE does
belong on the "dart board".
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TOMMYZ |
#7 | |||
kaycob wrote:To each its own..I understand your point..Ill argue this though..As I do not believe SE was the best PSL team..I believe Detroit Cody would have beat all those teams you mentioned... |
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kaycob |
#8 | |||
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I cannot speak to Cody, as I did not see them play, but that is a different conversation all together. I did, though, see SE play in week 1 as well as in their
last game v Fordson and they were simply unimpressive (as it pertains to a top 32 team). I will give them credit for a fast, swarming defense that can keep
them in games, but it was also a very undisciplined defense. Just my opinion.
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EastGuRu |
#9 | |||
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Searn, I think these are pretty good. Personally, I'd like to see EGR higher but you have to rank them somehow. My feeling, and perhaps it's yours too,
is that any one of these teams in the top 10 could beat any other of these teams on any given day. The difference between them isn't much. You might favor
one team in a matchup, but none of us would be "shocked" to see any of these teams beat another. I think if I had to do it, I'd be inclined to
name a "Champion", like Muskegon for example this year, and then I'd have an "Elite Programs Group" of say 10 teams (no announced
order) and a "Top Programs Group" of another 15-20 teams (again, no order). Then you could have an Honorable Mention category if you wanted to
broaden it further. Probably no one would like this and that's why i don't have my own site:) That said, keep up the good work.
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Searn |
#10 | |||
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All-Searn Hall of Fame
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Posts: 6352 12/01/08 5:44 PM Board Owner |
Ya, what hurts EGR a bit is playing in the D3 playoffs.
Obviously EGR is content with being the big fish in the small pond right now in D3 or else they would be playing up ... the positive in that is an overall easier run to a state championship ... the negative is that your championship is not going to carry as much weight compared to the D1 and D2 titles. Let's face it .... On the average year, EGR only has to get up for one game per year in OK-White play .. Lowell EGR put OLSM on the schedule, and it wasn't their fault OLSM had a down season ... and it also turned out Kenowa Hills had an "up" year. .. so maybe that one evened out. But as a D3 team these days .... to really have a shot to be in the Top 3 to end the season one of the following needs to happen. A. Schedule a BRUTAL non-league line B. Run the table on your current schedule and just be flawless all the way though. Look at Muskegon and EGR with their regular season and playoff schedules. Muskegon at 12-2 and a D2 title would be more impressive to me than EGR at 14-0 and a D3 title. ... The same can be said for Muskegon Catholic Central. Yes, they scheduled a brutal schedule (FOR A D8 TEAM) ... but for these rankings, in theory, everyone should be treated equal. MCC to finish very high in the poll would have had to schedule an AMAZING schedule with Class A and B powers included ... OR .. played up into a higher division for the playoffs. Such was the case with St. Martin DePorres back in 2003. Their 12-2 and D8 title was more impressive to me than MCC's 14-0 D8 title ... even though both are way above the D8 Average schedule. DePorres regular season included these teams such as .... Jackson Lumen Christi Holt Detroit CC Orchard Lake St. Mary Divine Child (won their district in D3 that season) On the average season ... the D8 Champ isn't going to make the poll ... MCC had just a tough enough schedule to make it in ... but would have to schedule even bigger to finish much higher.
Last Edited By: Searn 12/01/08 5:52 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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Searn |
#11 | |||
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All-Searn Hall of Fame
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Posts: 6354 12/01/08 6:08 PM Board Owner |
Spartan2008StateChamps wrote: Check your private messages ... |
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prepseer |
Final Rankings | #12 | ||
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Searn,
Nice job on your final Top 32. I've decided to do a Final Post Playoff Top 25. It will be published tonight. Some differences with yours, but nothing major. |
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EastGuRu |
#13 | |||
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First, Searn, I wasn't lobbying for EGR to be in the top 3. But I feel I need to respond to your rationale stated above. Note: Warren DeLaSalle's
opponents in the regular season had a combined record of 29-49. EGR's opponents 42-39 (all Class A schools except for OLSM and GR Chrstian). DLS, including
playoffs, played 4 teams in your final regular season top 32 (#1,15, 17, 28) and won 3 by a total of 22 points. East played 4 as well(#2,14, 16, and 23) and
won 3 by a total of 62 points. So, each lost to a great team by 20-ish but won the rest (EGR more convincingly). EGR wins their final game by 19 over your #10
team. DLS loses by 20 to your #1 team. So, how did DLS earn the "third best in the state" title? Sorry, I'm just not seeing it....other than that
is your opinion, which you, of course, are entitled to. As far as EGR needing to play up to be a legitimate top team?... I dunno, that seems a bit steep. When
Lowell won it all in 2004 - in D3, I don't remember many people describing them as "content to be a big fish in a small pond". I don't
remember anyone saying that about FHH either - their last 3 were in D3. I'm not aware of any other PUBLIC school that regularly plays up to prove a point.
At 961 students, East already plays a schedule where every opponent is larger than they are and their state championships have come against schools that you
and many others have at one time found to be top tier worthy, i.e. FHH, OLSM, Allen Park. I won't make, nor do I think they need, any excuses or asterisks
next to their accomplishments. They are one team (2004 Lowell) and one sprained ankle (Kelvin Grady) from 7 state titles in a row. That's plenty for me.
FWIW, I'd put EGR at 4th or 5th with Musky, Rockford, and Lowell, and MAYBE Hudsonville ahead of them. Of course, I'm biased, but I'd like to stay
somewhat credible as well. Hudsonville not only lost to the tough teams they played 3 times but against a common opponent (Kenowa Hills) won by about the same
margin as EGR (21-7 vs. 27-11).
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EastGuRu |
#14 | |||
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P.S. Another common opponent thing....EGR vs. OLSM with Dion Sims, 49-14..... DLS vs OLSM w/o Sims, 34-28 P.S.S. I still appreciate all of your work:)
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EastGuRu |
#15 | |||
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BTW, I have a question to all regarding the "school size". If the EGR's of the world must play flawless against larger schools, why is it that
the Rockford's of the world can play less than flawless against smaller schools??? I dare say that if EGR was held to negative yardage against a school
with 30% less kids, they would never be heard from again in the rankings.
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aslanprime |
My rankings | #16 | ||
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1. Muskegon 14-0
2. Rockford 13-1 3. Hudsonville 8-3 4. Lowell 11-1 5. Lake Orion 12-2 6. Davison 9-4 (#11?) 7. Warren DeLasalle 13-1 8. Canton 10-2 (#18?) 9. Livonia Stevenson 10-2 10. Sterling Heights Stevenson 10-2 11. Romeo 8-3 12. East Grand Rapids 13-1 13. Dearborn Fordson 12-1 14. Detroit Southeastern 10-2 (#23?) 15. Southfield 11-2 16. Macomb Dakota 9-2 17. Utica Eisenhower 5-5 (I had to put them in. 4 quality losses, 3 close, and a 7-0 loss to Lake Orion in the first round) 18. Wyandotte Roosevelt 10-2 (NR???) 19. Midland 10-2 (#29?) 20. Southgate Anderson 9-2 (I guess since you didn't put Roosevelt in, you would leave Southgate out as well...but a loss to Fordson and Roosevelt in the playoffs...after beating Roosevelt earlier in the season...I can't leave them out.) 21. Inkster 12-2 (#10?) 22. Stevensville Lakeshore 11-2 (#16?) 23. White Lake Lakeland 9-3 24. Saline 7-4 (Lost to Pioneer but crushed Chelsea) 25. Chelsea 9-3 (Beat Pioneer, lost to Saline, lost a very close game to Inkster) 26. Ann Arbor Pioneer 7-3 (loss 2 close games to Chelsea and Saline (playoffs), but beat Saline in the regular season) 27. Birmingham Brother Rice 7-3 28. Detroit Catholic Central 6-4 29. Orchard Lake St. Mary's 4-5 (I'm sorry...but close losses to Warren DeLaSalle, DCC, Davison, and Brother Rice...and a win over Brother Rice...I can't fault them any more than #29 when they have the balls to play that schedule) 30. Rochester Adams 8-2 (YES!! They finally made it on the rankings!!) 31. Clarkston 6-4 (A win over Troy and close losses to Adams and Lake Orion...can't move them down any further) 32. Bloomfield Hills Lahser 11-2 Honorable Mentions: East Grand Rapids Kenowa Hills 8-2, Grand Blanc 6-4, Grand Ledge 10-1, Hartland 9-3, Holland Christian 14-0, Howell 9-2, Lansing Everett 7-3, Livonia Franklin 5-5, Milford 5-5, Muskegon Catholic Central 14-0, Muskegon Oakridge 14-0, Novi 7-3, Plymouth 6-4, Traverse City West 6-4, Troy 6-4. You have Holland Christian at #15. They looked good against a moderate Country Day team, but you put them up against the big boys from D1 and D2...they have no indication that they could stand up to that. They only played one Class A school the entire year and it was a worthless win over a 1-8 Cedar Springs. I feel the same way about St. Joseph, Muskegon Oakridge, and Muskegon Catholic Central. Grand Ledge I can see the point...wins over East Lansing and Lansing Everett...but not much else. And those wins were by a total of 3 points...that just doesn't make enough a case for me. Had they pounded Bay City Western or kept it closer against Rockford...they'd probably be up higher. And I STILL don't get Caledonia! |
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Searn |
#17 | |||
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All-Searn Hall of Fame
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Posts: 6358 12/02/08 12:58 AM Board Owner |
Re: EastGuru
I didn't say EGR had to play flawless against the big boys (not necessarily meaning school size) during the regular season if they are not going to have a brutal schedule .... I said they had to be flawless against who they played and all the way to the D3 title. Which is basically what FHH and Lowell did in their D3 title wins in 2000, 2001 and 2004.... and EGR did the same thing when they won titles with Kevin Grady ... which is why they finished in the top 2 those seasons. Had EGR ran the table at 14-0 the past 2 seasons the would have been Top 3 teams most likely both seasons ... instead they slightly lower (still top 10). By the way .... in 2001 ... D3 was "today's D2" ... ... that particular season I would say it was stronger at the top than D1 or D2 (just my opinion).... EGR is clearly one of the top programs in Michigan ... and one of the best teams in the state on a yearly basis ... But unless they are going to finish 14-0 .... .. it's tough to put them into the Top 3 with a Loss ...... UNLESS ... they have a brutal regular season schedule OR they played up to D2. |
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Searn |
#18 | |||
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All-Searn Hall of Fame
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Posts: 6359 12/02/08 1:05 AM Board Owner |
I love all the reactions to the rankings ... it's a lot of fun to see the varying opinions ...
One one post we have a member saying that Holland Christian is TOO LOW at #15 ..... then below another member saying they are TOO HIGH at #15 One member saying Detroit Southeastern should not even be ranked ... another that they are a Top 15 team .... Some mlive people ripping me for having MCC ONLY at #32 ... others are up in arms that they are even ranked ... One believes that EGR should be higher ... another has them lower .... I'm sure once we see Prepseer's ranking they'll be even more differences of opinion. This is what makes the rankings a lot of fun ... and sometimes difficult.... but mostly fun. |
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Searn |
#19 | |||
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All-Searn Hall of Fame
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Posts: 6360 12/02/08 1:13 AM Board Owner |
Even more proof that everyone has their own ranking style and opinions ....
http://www.prepseer.com/?p=331#more-331 One thing I have said is that you probably won't catch me putting team ahead of a team that beat them in the state playoffs ... since I put such a premium on the post season play. Prepseer does not always go that way Example Lakeland eliminated Brother Rice from the playoffs Ranking Rice #10 Lakeland # #24 Lake Orion eliminated SH Stevenson SHS #7 Lake Orion #9 Everyone has their own thinking and opinions .... which makes it interesting .. While I don't always agree with other's rankings .... I can usually at least understand how they came up with their rankings, and respect them..... which I know that's how most treat my weekly rankings. |
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prepseer |
Final Rankings | #20 | ||
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Searn,
Thanks for the plug. I was going to post that my rankings were now up at www.prepseer.com but you beat me to it. As you noted, I don't always buy the head-to-head ranking where a team that beats another team always gets ranked ahead of the team it beat. There are just too many variables and too many upsets in high school football. If the person doing the rankings cannot interject some judgement, he probably isn't qualified to do rankings. A computer could do the job. And we all know how accurate the computer rakings are. Not. I do rely on game results, to a point, mainly when I haven't personally seen the teams. But, when I've seen a team multiple times, I use my own judgement to sometimes override the head-to-head results. This happens more later in the year. It doesn't always involve Brother Rice either. You mentioned the Lake Orion--Sterling Hts. Stevenson juxtaposition. That was a close call, but I sincerely thought SHS and Dakota were better teams than LO. East Guru makes a good case for ranking his team higher than DLS, but I don't agree. He uses strength of schedule as one reason. As bad as DLS's non-conference schedule (first three weeks) was, overall I think DLS had a tougher schedule than EGR. It's misleading to use opponents winning percentage when you play in a weak league. Apart from Lowell and EGR, the OK White is not a strong league. It's much weaker than the CHSL Central. When teams from that league only play each other plus have non-conference games against even lower and weaker OK leagues, you are going to have several teams with winning records. That doesn't make EGR better because they beat so many teams with winning records. I will agree that EGR's performance against OLSM was impressive. I also know how difficult it is for a team to travel West and play a top program in its home environment. If you're the slightest bit flat and you get behind early, it's curtains. Just because EGR pummelled OLSM, and DLS had to go to OT to beat them, that doesn't make EGR a better team. If EGR were in the CHSL Central and had to travel to Ohio for one game, I don't think they would have had only one loss this year. DLS made it to the Finals undefeated. Having said all that, the teams are very close IMO. I have them ranked #4 and #5. I've watched the Lakeland--BBR game on tape twice now and I moved Lakeland down to #24 because I just didn't think they should be ranked higher based on one big win, but based on their overall results, which included a blowout loss vs DLS--a team that beat BBR by two. Lakeland also lost to Canton (#22) and Howell (HM). Who would be favored in a game between Brother Rice and either Canton or Howell. I think the consensus opinion would favor Rice. The Rice win probably helped Lakeland to a higher ranking than Howell. Both teams are pretty equal, but Lakeland did get the nod for the Top 25. As for the BBR game, Lakeland won the game on the scoreboard but not on the field, if you know what I mean. It teally came down to one play--that 4th and 1 from the 30 yd line where Lakeland gambled on won--the play and the game. A close win like that cannot always be duplicated. I maintain that BBR would win most of the games if the teams played multiple times. Nobody can prove it. Lakeland fans will disagree. But, they can do their own rankings if they desire. I'm sure Romeo fans are wondering why their team is ranked below Dakota--a team they beat earlier in the season. Well, they did upset Dakota. I'm not sure they could do it if the teams played again. SHS beat Romeo and lost to Dakota. Then there's the loss to 5-5 Ike. Romeo had a nice early season run, but I think #16 is a good fit for them. There seems to be a lot of controversy over Caledonia. I did end up putting them in my final rankings, even though I resisted most of the year. I think playing Lowell relatively close sealed the deal for me. I felt earlier than Caledonia just didn't play anyone and they shouldn't be ranked. A similar situation existed with G.R. Kenowa Hills. Both teams have passionate fans and have made their case, but I think both teams need to upgrade schedules and play some of the West Side majors in non-conference play to consistently make the rankings. I did slip Caledonia into the rankings at #23 and GRKH at Honorable Mention. Holland Christian's position in the HM group is purely a function of Division 4. No team lowwer than Division 3 made the Top 25. I used the Honorable Mention category to recognize some of the smaller schools who had good seasons. Realistically, I don't think any of those 4-8 teams could beat the better larger schools--i.e. the teams in the Top 25. As many have stated, a lot of this is personal opinion. Anyone can do their own rankings and interject their own opinions. I take my rankings very seriously and do not put teams in them on a whim. I always try to have some rationale for my placements. I'm not perfect and sometimes I'd like to change my mind after the fact. Cant' do it now. Next issue comes pre-season next August. Look for BBR to be #1. (Just kidding).
Last Edited By: prepseer 12/02/08 10:28 AM.
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